Interesting intervention in a rather over the top bitching session over at the Beer Advocate pointing out the disfunctionality of a large part of the discourse. In response to some wildly weirdly accusations about which breweries in the US are “over rated”, Sam Calagione of Dogfish Head in response went off:
It’s pretty depressing to frequently visit this site and see the most negative threads among the most popular. This didn’t happen much ten years ago when craft beer had something like a 3 percent market share. Flash forward to today, and true indie craft beer now has a still-tiny but growing marketshare of just over 5 percent. Yet so many folks that post here still spend their time knocking down breweries that dare to grow. It’s like that old joke: “Nobody eats at that restaurant anymore, it’s too crowded.” Except the “restaurants” that people shit on here aren’t exactly juggernauts. In fact, aside from Boston Beer, none of them have anything even close to half of one percent marketshare. The more that retailers, distributors, and large industrial brewers consolidate the more fragile the current growth momentum of the craft segment becomes. The more often the Beer Advocate community becomes a soap box for outing breweries for daring to grow beyond its insider ranks the more it will be marginalized in the movement to support, promote, and protect independent American craft breweries…
It is a weird response. It could have been just “screw you, I do what I want.” It could have been about how the BAers had become jaded. Both of which are pretty much true. But no. No, we get handed that old saw about how we are all in one boat together and how Team Craft Beer has to pull all in the same direction. See, we need to support “breweries that dare to grow” because, like the flower, they are fragile. It is a call to not be a consumer. It is a call to be something between a co-conspirator and a patsy. Never mind, as Jay points out, there are a an ever expanding huge number of craft breweries in the US. It sounds like we are asked to pay, accept and put up with a craft movement well into its third or fourth decade. But then look at the response. “Sorry!!” “Didn’t mean you!!” “Were would we be without you?” “You are the wind beneath my wings.” It’s the Stockholm Syndrome, good beer version. Would someone respond in the same way if the head brewer of, say, 1900 of the 1952 craft breweries had responded? Not likely. It takes celebrity to get a response like that. Excellent.
There has to be a better way. The part of the good beer trade that pays for everything, the consumer, has to be treated better than this. And the consumer has, in turn, to learn to be more intelligent and well spoken if they are to be taken seriously. The current dialogue this thread exemplifies does not really provide as much as it could or should. Saying that “Bells, Founders, FFF, Surly, RR, DFH, Bruery, Avery, Cigar City, Mikkeller are all overrated” is just weak minded. As Calagione goes on to point out, much to his credit, each of these breweries make a range of beer some of which are to many people’s taste. And, to add to that idea, for the most part they are well priced for what they offer.
But some are not. And that is the point of “over rating” a brewery. It is not enough to slag the complaint makers, however thick. Over priced, over packaged and overly precious beers deserve being called over rated. I don’t care if you have passion, try really really hard or dare to grow. It’s up to me – and each of you – to determine if a beer is a bust or not. If it is worth your money. You want to pay for daring and the duds that that entails, feel free. Me, I like good beer at an honest price.
[…Original comments…]
Pivní Filosof – January 11, 2012 4:58 AM
http://www.pivni-filosof.com/
I think that rather than overrated breweries there are overrated beers (if a brewery produces too many of them, then it becomes overrated, too). Quite often a beer becomes overrated not because its maker so wants, but because of a loud minority, the best example of that, IMO is Westvleteren 12.
On the other hand, many “craftophiles” are very much like indie music fans. Once the object of their affection somehow breaks into the mainstream they accuse it of “selling out”, etc, almost as if they resented its success. Quite pathetic behaviour, actually.
That said. Calagione’s response was silly at best.
Bailey – January 11, 2012 6:49 AM
http://boakandbailey.com
As it happens, we’ve been pondering on this, too. (Just posted.) Object to the idea that if we as consumers don’t unquestioningly support craft beer, or even all beer, we’re traitors of some kind.
And, yes, when breweries get big, consumers stop mollycoddling them, because they’re all growed up. Why is anyone (especially brewers…) surprised by that?
Stephen Beaumont – January 11, 2012 9:26 AM
http://www.worldofbeer.com
I read Sam’s post much differently, Mr. McL. I don’t think he was so much espousing the “we’re all in this together” approach as countering the kind of “you’re too big to be cool” attitude Max references above.
Jeremy – January 11, 2012 11:15 AM
http://pintwell.com
It seems like criticism from the inane to the well-thought-out is anathema in the craft beer world. This reaction is a bit over the top for what started out as a silly/trolling forum post. It actually reminds me of Garret Olivers reaction to the criticism of the OCB. Have these “beer clebs” become so used to people loving everything they do that the slightest negative statement results in a sharp counterpoint that suggests that if you don’t agree with them you must not be part of the true craft beer community?
Alan – January 11, 2012 11:22 AM
I might agree with you, Mr. B., if he were not also stating this:”
Even if attitudes toward cans are changing, many people don’t like the idea of craft beer cozying into containers whose cultural status has long been defined by Bud, beans and Spam. Dogfish Head Craft Brewery’s Sam Calagione, for example, says his focus has been to elevate beer to the level of wine, a mission best served by gravitating toward 750-milliliter bottles, not 12-ounce aluminum tubes.
See, I take “dare to grow” to include “dare to move to a $15 caged cork bottle.” I entirely agree with the idea that the BAer’s cited having lost perspective but there are also brewers to my mind who have lost perspective, too, with their focus on an over priced market point leveraging branding and “rock star” associations beyond what is in the glass.
Keep in mind the advice I got from a senior lawyer when I was a fresh grad: make sure you bill them well as no one respects advice on a serious matter that comes with an inexpensive account.
Stephen Beaumont – January 11, 2012 11:56 AM
http://www.worldofbeer.com
Oh, Mr. McL, using a paraphrased, out-of-context statement from a completely different and almost entirely unrelated article as the basis for interpreting and, it needs be added, fundamentally altering the meaning of Sam’s statement?! No judge in the world would let you get away with that one!
Alan – January 11, 2012 12:20 PM
Well, here is my problem. I like to understand context and am seeing a wee bit more than enough of “supply side” thinking in responses to criticism these days. To test that, to determine if that is true, in law, we use many tools including a little thing we like to call of as “prior inconsistent statement”!! 😉
Joe Stange – January 11, 2012 12:47 PM
http://www.thirstypilgrim.com
Well, you guys are both basically right. He doesn’t explicitly use the “we’re all in this together, right community?” shtick. But it’s implied, I think, in his reminding us all that craft still has just 5% of the market.
Alan – January 11, 2012 12:49 PM
Who ever came up with the “We re the 5%!!” craft beer t-shirt made me gak like a cat with a fur ball.
Craig – January 11, 2012 4:29 PM
http://drinkdrank1.blogspot.com/
Haters gonna hate—deal with it.
Sam refers to his stuff being in the “most popular” category and then complains that people are badmouthing his brew. Sorry Sam, I hated the good-looking, star quarterback, who nailed all the cheerleaders, too—I’m human, sue me. He might want to use this as a wake up call—maybe DFH is overrated. Perhaps the people have spoken. As far as the BAers go, think of it this way—a person is smart, people are stupid. Don’t you think that the previous review might have had some influence on the review after it. Compound that by a hundred or a thousand reviews. Right or wrong, people want to fit in, and if bashing DFH on BA makes some dude on his computer happy, no one is going to change that with some pro-craft beer, occupy-a-pint-glass rebuke. By the way, nothing gets me going more than a rich guy acting like he’s not rich. You might lose a bit of street cred as a “brewer of the people” when you’re tag-teaming with Discovery, Google and Pearl Jam to sell beer—appearance is everything.
Sam T – January 11, 2012 8:06 PM
http://samtierney.wordpress.com/
It’s all marketing speak. Sam is really good at it, and much better at it than at actually making beer (not that he’s bad at that part, but his marketing skill is almost unparalleled in the industry).
For a brewery of their size, Beer Advocate is insignificant. Sure, they play along with the fests and such to market a bit and have fun, but their consumer base is vastly larger than those who bitch on forums. He didn’t need to make that post and probably shouldn’t have.
You can’t really take anything said in the Beer Advocate thread too seriously to begin with (the very idea and practical definition of “over-rated brewery” makes it futile) but Sam basically came in and told everyone that their opinions didn’t matter and they needed to fall into the party line. That disturbs me a little bit. What if the offending opinions had been more eloquently and respectfully articulated?
It’s hard to see amidst the ocean of noise, but clearly there are consumers that are dissatisfied with many popular producers right now. In the end, they will vote with their wallets and the complaints will either ring true or be drowned by masses of supporters who are still ready to stand in line for the next specialty release. As long as Dogfish or any other brewery is selling their beer and making money, why would they change? To make a few whiners happy? Better to just ignore them and keep following your passion.
Alan – January 11, 2012 8:28 PM
So passion = bottom line. Thanks for clearing up what I have long suspected.
Sean Inman – January 12, 2012 4:29 PM
http://www.beersearchparty.com/
I do not want to return to a time with little to no choices in beer. So I will support any brewery that “dares” itself and the customer. And by support, I mean tasting the beer and giving my honest opinion either on my blog, on RateBeer or with my wallet. I will also support any brewery that makes a great brown ale or ESB too.
I do not care what the size of the brewery is, how cool or uncool the brewer is, whether it is ultra-hoppy or barrel aged or all of the above. If that makes me a “patsy” or a hypnotized member of Team Craft Beer then the “I am the 5% shirt” fits.
I fear there are too many out there who enjoy the vitriol and thrive on bad news. I choose to find and associate with the good people of beer (and they are legion) and not with the people who would squelch experimentation or claim that passion is a thing to be mocked.
Alan – January 12, 2012 6:43 PM
Well, just as long as you are also not being taken to the cleaners along the way. With respect, passion is a euphemism for a lot of things. And there are a lot of boring people in the world of beer, too. About exactly the same proportion that you find in any walk of life. Beer’s not always good so I will point that out whenever I see it.
Ethan – January 12, 2012 10:09 PM
http://communitybeerworks.com
Honestly, anyone who gets involved in a thread about “overrated breweries” is a tool, a simpleton, or both. I would never have even known about that thread if Sam C. had not jumped on it–and/or BeerNews.com or you not blogged about it–and that’s how I like it.
It is certainly also worth making the point that the ratings themselves and the fora around them are two different beasts; one need not participate in both. (Or either, natch).
Alan – January 13, 2012 11:38 AM
I think someone agrees with me.
Alan – January 16, 2012 11:00 PM
I had no idea there were so many ways to be unctuous.